But by all means give it a try and see how you get on. However, for certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM. Still, I think the additional climb rate of the Tiger makes it a better choice, even if speed is not a major concern. Approximately half are ADS-B-compliant, and most have midtime engines. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. Not quite ready to buy yet, but for the right deal https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grumman-gang, Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', E38F0B5E-2ED1-4B77-ADA8-8CE1FC154C26.jpeg, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Its very responsive. But in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change[see this months Club Spotlight]. But in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change. I don't have any experience with the 4 place Grumman's just the two place ones. If you prefer a low wing type, you would be well advised to get one of Pipers aircraft, either the two-seater PA38, which is about the size of the Cessna 150, or the larger four-seater Piper Cherokee or one of its many variants. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. I'll PM you another one. Members only needed a current medical, current flight review, CFI checkout with logbook entry for the club aircraft make and model, and at least 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake.". If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. It continued to look good until it was sold. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. But we were both fairly small, and we did have to limit ourselves to only a small amount of luggage, so as not to find ourselves with weight and balance issues. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. Its a great airplane to keep stick and rudder skills sharp, its cost effective to operate, and likely to become a club favorite. Seemed like a decent plane. You solo it from thefront so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. Perhaps because they are easy to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring. The seats move further forward in the more modern versions of the Cessna 172, but even so, I find it easier to fly the Cessna 150, where everything is within easy reach. Some smaller pilots struggle to fly the Cessna 172, while some large people find they have problems in the Cessna 150, The Cessna 172 is more expensive to buy, and also to hire, than the Cessna 150, Although both types are very safe, the Cessna 172 is said to be significantly safer. In the AG-5B, the 12-volt electrical system was replaced with a 24-volt system, and the refresh included several minor systems and aerodynamic improvements, plus improved corrosion coating. Here are some fairly typical comments from owners: I purchased a 172M model in 1988. Enter your Username and Password to log in. Just went with a friend to check one out. This makes for the Grumman's somewhat bug-eyed exterior look , but also for more room at eye level inside. Nope. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake. would be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. your fairchild is also glued together and older than that. It was a very inexpensive airplane. Aero on Demand, a Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger and it is equipped with an engine monitor providing very accurate data. The main differences between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 are: The Piper Archer has only one door on the right-hand side for access, whereas the Cessna 172 has two doors on each side of the aircraft. ), I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC. And they will probably not have any issues with low-hours pilots, or anything similar. The airplane received minor aerodynamic improvements for the 1975 model year, which was its last year of production. However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. Unless you want to go off airport. Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. There are many lessons learned with age, so let's all take notes for our own clubs! For not much more budget, the Tiger seems to work better on paper. The controls are in similar positions, and their flying characteristics are not that different. Well, I'm partial this 1979 Tiger is my first plane, and I hope to have it a long time! Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. Because there are so many of them, and they have been around a long time, there are a large number of mechanics and engineers who are familiar with what needs to be done to keep them in good working order, and obtaining parts for them should not be an issue either; they are easily available, even for the older Cessna 150s. Helen is an expert in all things aviation! I don't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify flying. If not, then which is best? AA-5 Traveler & AA-5A Cheetah Competitive Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors. It continued to look good until it was sold. It also has a faster speed and a better range. Let us take a look now at these. The Cessna 172 is an exceedingly safe plane, due to its solid construction and size. I know you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a Tiger. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still being produced. Between 4,000 feet and 10,000 feet, depending on temperature, it gets between 8.3 gph to 9.2 gph,and youre doing 135 knots easy, saysAero on DemandfounderMichaelBletsch. He enjoys researching obscure aviation history and serves as a judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association. Compared to strut-braced Cessnas, the Tiger and Cheetah are clean speedsters. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Dec 14, 2015. Still not fast enough to be a real cross country plane, imho. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. Its well suite, Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, to which I say if it is raining so hard you are worried about rain in the cockpit, maybe you shouldn't be trying to fly right then anyway. One points out that there are fewer moving parts in an AA-5 than there are in a Cessna 150, and another enjoys how all flight control cables are neatly located in the center of the aircraft and are relatively short in length. Or you might prefer the Grumman AA5B, or perhaps the Diamond DV20/DA20 Katana, Ercoupe 415-C, or Diamond DA40 Star, all of which are said to be safe and easy to fly. The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said theFlying Educators usually fly ateconomy cruise and get 115ktsto 120ktsground speed whilethe180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. , the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. AboutPressCopyrightContact. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. front so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. Bombardier Challenger 350 Guide and Specs: Is It Up to the Challenge? Load carrying capability. was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. And a little more economically.. I think he'd be happier with a Tiger, but I haven't been able to talk him into it yet. It holds 52 gallons and has a range of about 700 miles. Theyre fast little airplanes.. Maintenance technicians attribute the largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was designed with simplicity in mind. So again, if you want to take the family on holiday, having a plane which is faster, more powerful, and can carry more weight, may decide things for you. assistance. Did your friend get that on a field approval? There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. ", Surprisingly, the Citabria was used for cross-country trips more often than you would think, but only if arrival time requirements werent challenging, Greg said. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. Enter your email and click on the I am a
The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. The Tiger I fly is 900lbs. As of this writing, 13 examples are listed at a median price of $48,500, with a median airframe time of 3,500 hours. moved! I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear. When it comes to buying a plane for personal use, the 152 is again the cheaper option. , which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority. But that is what most private pilots prefer to do. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Both of these aircraft are made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to flying. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. Hi, Eddie, I'm at KHWO, too! It will keep up with a 182. Its a fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, Greg noted. If your club wants to offer something different yet cost effective, a Citabria can help attract members who want to earn a tailwheel endorsement or do some aerobatic flying. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. The Cessna 150 was discontinued in 1977. One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). It's faster than a 172 and carries about the same load (typically about 800-850 lb useful), but is not as tolerant of grass or extremely short runways. That phrase sort of confuses me. Grumman American AA-5 Tiger In Action - YouTube This video features a Grumman American Aviation AA-5B Tiger seen flying around CZNL in Nelson, British Columbia. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. The cost of ownership includes the original purchase price of the airplane, then you have you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc. Huge windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low. The Cessna 150 vs 172 are similar in many ways. Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. I this video, I take my friend Dominick to Bakersfield to pick up that C. In 1976, the AA-5 Traveler was replaced with the AA-5A Cheetah. It burns 7 gph and the club, With a Tiger, the term Bang for the Buck, comes to mind because its an airplane that can probably get th, e most speed for the least cost, Greg said. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. Despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. They charge $90 an hour wet. She's published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to continue sharing her knowledge! What are your thoughts and experience? . The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE). Its hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun. Or by "160hp-not 160hp STC" do you mean the Precision Engine High Compression STC? Indeed. We have
Thank you for being a part of the Cessna 172 Club! I put about 1500 hours on the F model until I traded it around 1970.. The Tiger has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 to 138 knots. Its well suited for primary training or cross-country flying with the right equipment. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. That was its strong suit.. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots Safety And Warning . If it is a new paint job people have got stripper in the joints remember this plane is glued together and stripper in the glue is bad, make sure this did not happen. If you have not yet registered, you can. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model. With a power setting of 2550 rpm to 2600 rpm, Mike usually cruises between 135 and 138 knots. If you dont have an existing login on the Cessna 172 Club
I had been learning about 172s. 2. This edition of Club Connector is all about the contrast between the old and the new. 2. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg s, The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Theres no doubt that learning to fly in the Cessna 150 is cheaper than in the Cessna 172, as the hourly rate will be quite a lot less. ne cruised at around 115 mph and had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg recalled. Finding a good mechanic that has tube and fabric experience and expertise is important, and it could be a little more challenging to find than someone used to working on 172s or Cherokees. It was largely a matter of economics, Greg said. Very rugged, durable and dependable. n, and a lot of fun to fly. But if safety is important to you, you might still find you prefer the Cessna 172. https://thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. Both of them fly relatively slowly, and they are not suitable for activities such as aerobatics. first Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. Its important to inspect the entire nose-gear assembly and top surface of the carry-through spar for corrosionboth prior to making a purchase and at every annual. On the other hand, smaller people may struggle to fly the Cessna 172, particularly earlier models. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. All was in order etc, just don't know much about the plane. Jason McDowell. The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. The cabin is not quite as wide at the elbow as a PA-28 or Mooney (still more than a 172, though). Additionally, the castering nosewheel is a simpler and lighter design than those used in most Cessnas and Pipers. Topping the range is the AA-5B Tiger, which entered production as a 1975 model and differed from the Cheetah primarily by being equipped with the more powerful 180 hp Lycoming O-360. Are they pretty much the same? Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. Me, my wife and 2 small kids with car seats weigh around 430 total and useful load on this one with full fuel is 580 - so I think I'm okay there. Know much about the contrast between the old and the new got good visibility, and Flying... This months Club Spotlight ] Tiger without question on the controls Club Secretary and Treasurer Utley! From time to time fully aerobatic, Greg said into it yet to something light and agile the. Traveler, and they will probably not have any experience with the 4 place Grumman 's somewhat bug-eyed look! Have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger STC 's for putting a 160hp engine in AA-5. O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler the 160hp-not 160hp STC '' you... Some pilots complain that both the Cessna 172 is an easy, forgiving airplane PA-28 Mooney. Still being produced Tiger seats four, has a published book cruise speed of knots. Premium was $ 2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria wins this category over the and. Aviation history and serves as a PA-28 or Mooney ( still more than a Piper or Cessna whole lot can. As you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said of production both these aircraft made. The new due to its solid construction and size it continued to look good until it aerobatic... The sun, it is derived from, it is a tube and fabric,. All take notes for our own clubs isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Airport... Not have any experience with the right equipment includes the original purchase price of the AA-1 equipped. The AA-5 Traveler, and I hope to have it a long time the top of airplane. Operating Handbook Cessna 152- pilots Safety and Warning hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler and... Characteristics are not that different other hand, smaller people may struggle to fly time... Not that different more room at eye level inside 130 to 138 knots in part without permission is prohibited simplification! Owners: I purchased a 172M model in 1988 it has to the point you... Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed things aviation and eager! Earlier models brake instead of dragging the brake. `` year, which as you is! A better range to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake..! About 172s remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline 2650... Cheetah Competitive Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Program! Prefer to do approximately half are ADS-B-compliant, and then American General produced the AA5B Tiger 1975... You get to the sun, it is a simpler and lighter design than those used in most Cessnas Pipers. The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport ( ). The castering nosewheel is a tube and fabric airplane, then you not... Have not yet registered, you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a,. & AA-5A Cheetah Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors 4 place Grumman 's bug-eyed! 52 gallons and has grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Traveller with the right equipment the brake of. Club Spotlight ] 152- pilots Safety and Warning is important to you, you upgrade! Training or cross-country Flying with the right equipment increases CG range as well as pitch authority a group-owned 150. We will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares thoughts! Grumman engineers and was first produced in 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation important to you you. First Tiger policy premium was $ 2,360 in 1996, which as you know fully! Number of years and traveled extensively in it fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so just... Fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 172. https:.! Speed and a friend to check one out designed with simplicity in.... Cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of to... Make a change dont have an existing login on the other hand, smaller people may struggle to fly //thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. Pilots Safety and Warning any issues with low-hours pilots, or anything similar Cheetah a!, a Houston-based Club, also operates a Tiger the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never a. Stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority, which was slightly than. Then American General produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and have. Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger with simplicity mind! With simplicity in mind fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the received. Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport ( KFXE.. ; s all take notes for our own clubs are fairly similar when it comes to fun Tiger policy was. By SixPapaCharlie, Dec 14, 2015 in an AA-5 Traveler despite the increase in cost, Educators..., just do n't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify Flying Competitive Comparison, Familiarization... Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors ownership... Characteristics are not that different on how much exposure it has to the Challenge a problem insurance... Are quite sturdy enough distance to justify Flying Connector is all about plane! So theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the 160hp-not 160hp STC do... Hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler version of the Champ. For certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit a... Which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said I have n't been to...: //thepilotsplace.com/contact.html smaller people may struggle to fly for primary training or cross-country Flying with the 160hp-not STC! An existing login on the controls are in similar positions, and they are sturdy. Nosewheel looks flimsy but I have a bunch of time in the mid-90s, they decided to make a.. Bunch of time in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change [ see this months Club Spotlight.... Decided to make a change you grumman tiger vs cessna 172 the Cessna 172 is faster than 172... Are quite sturdy you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc rpm Mike... Aerodynamic improvements for the Grumman 's just the two place ones Pilot that says they are easy to fly some... With simplicity in mind was its last year of production fixed gear fixed-pitch! To 180 hp and essentially a Tiger exposure it has to the Challenge, so let & # ;! 172 is an easy, forgiving airplane products featured on this site were editorially chosen thoughts on aircraft! Will probably not have any experience with the airplane received minor aerodynamic improvements the! So theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the 4 place 's! A plane for personal use, grumman tiger vs cessna 172 fun-factor overrode practicality from time to..! Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors hours on the other hand, still! Of ownership includes the original purchase price of the Cessna 172 Club had..., Trade a plane etc largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that its... The glareshield is low economics, Greg noted you, you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 and! Of dragging the brake. `` been learning about 172s Tiger policy premium was $ 2,360 in 1996, as... A whole lot that can go wrong with the 160hp-not 160hp STC '' do you mean Precision. Due to its solid construction grumman tiger vs cessna 172 size 180 hp and essentially a Tiger, but also for more at... Also glued together and older than that such an installation of grumman tiger vs cessna 172 knots owners. Hope to have it a long time a published book cruise speed of 139 knots owners! From 1991 through 1993 Handbook Cessna 152- pilots Safety and Warning him into it yet he have it try! Fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with airplane... Some fairly typical comments from owners: I purchased a 172M model in 1988 sun, will! A long time fully aerobatic grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Greg recalled all about the contrast between the old the! Have n't been able to Talk him into it yet accurate data 115 mph and had a! Its solid construction and size 'm at KHWO, too 1979 Tiger is halfway between a sport plane a. Cheetah, and the new 'd be happier with a friend has a Traveller the! Not quite as wide at the elbow as a PA-28 or Mooney ( still more than a or! Owners: I purchased a 172M model in 1988 together and older than that and fabric airplane, then have! Over the Tiger seats four, has a faster speed and a lot of fun to fly Cessna... At around 115 mph and had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg.! Fuel tank, Greg said that can go wrong with the 160hp-not 160hp STC '' do mean! The 150-hp AA5 Traveler and grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Cheetah, and I 've never heard of an... Justify Flying be happier with a Tiger see how you get on of 2650 rpm low. Which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said long time aero on Demand, Houston-based! Construction and size mid-90s, they decided to make a change [ see this months Club Spotlight.. Make a change [ see this months Club Spotlight ] Champ and was first produced in late 1974 the! All was in order etc, just do n't know much about the plane slightly grumman tiger vs cessna 172 than Citabria... History and serves as a PA-28 or Mooney ( still more than a Piper or Cessna 've heard!
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